Hi all. I’m looking in to buying a new 177 pcp. Been looking at a few reviews but can’t make up my mind. I’m interested in the Weihrauch HW100kt, Daystate wolverine R or the fx streamline. If anyone could help me out on narrowing down on the better pcp please, it would be much appreciated, thank you.
That's is a very fine group and anyone would be pleased with that. I have never shot the 80 but my son had the 77 in .22. I thought that gun was the most purposeful and beautiful springer I had ever shot. I loved its accuracy and its really smooth under lever cocking action. It developed a good smack at full power (11.3 foot pounds) and could shoot the eyes out of a gnat at 50 yards. My lad thought it was a bit heavy and he sold it for an interesting and early Walther LGR single stroke pneumatic, which is also a nice rifle to use. He has just picked up an Original type 66 recoilless springer but we have not put it through its paces yet.
I was out for a short time on a range today... social distancing kept 3 out of five lanes closed but I got to shoot my 10 metre pistol finally, after almost three months. Even though conditions were quite windy, I was able to hit targets reliably at 10, 20, 30 and 40 yards, which is very acceptable in and under 6 foot pound air gun. Great to be out of the house too,.
I was out for a short time on a range today... social distancing kept 3 out of five lanes closed but I got to shoot my 10 metre pistol finally, after almost three months. Even though conditions were quite windy, I was able to hit targets reliably at 10, 20, 30 and 40 yards, which is very acceptable in and under 6 foot pound air gun. Great to be out of the house too,.
Jepho .. that mount is nice ...but i have only 1 gun that stands me more money that's my logun S16 and that is only as i had it converted to pump action..mind you i do wait till i drop on a bargain..my webley raider 10 stands me at£180 after i sold the scope that it came with
i do think if you are spending any amount of money like HW100 price acraci has to take a front seat....shots below is from my springer a 177 HW80K 4 shoots in the oval hole and the flyer..if you can call 1/4 an inch away a flyer ..it was another bargain ,was looking for an underlever like a HW77 but thinking i may buy new as second hand prices at the time was often within £25 of new ..then i see this 80K come up on gunstar
in the morning for £180 ..bonny and clide tuned with a polished trigger and a aftermarket swept back trigger blade ..not what i was after think its cheap and it will be snap up quick but when i got home and it was still on and the guy had knocked it down to £140..i buy it think i will flip it for a £100+ profit..but when it arrived mint and shot so well and its the best trigger i hever shoot with it is now will be the last gun i would sell ..the HW80 is hold sensitive but if i get in to it and my concentration is good i can out shoot my singal shot Brocock Contour and webley raider PCP
i do think if you are spending any amount of money like HW100 price acraci has to take a front seat....shots below is from my springer a 177 HW80K 4 shoots in the oval hole and the flyer..if you can call 1/4 an inch away a flyer ..it was another bargain ,was looking for an underlever like a HW77 but thinking i may buy new as second hand prices at the time was often within £25 of new ..then i see this 80K come up on gunstar
in the morning for £180 ..bonny and clide tuned with a polished trigger and a aftermarket swept back trigger blade ..not what i was after think its cheap and it will be snap up quick but when i got home and it was still on and the guy had knocked it down to £140..i buy it think i will flip it for a £100+ profit..but when it arrived mint and shot so well and its the best trigger i hever shoot with it is now will be the last gun i would sell ..the HW80 is hold sensitive but if i get in to it and my concentration is good i can out shoot my singal shot Brocock Contour and webley raider PCP
Hi Davev8
The Weihrauch silencer is a model of good behaviour and very well made it is too. I would never have thought of it as a cocking aid but I will chalk that one up to the quality of Weihrauch moderator engineering.
I had considered fitting a one piece scope mount from Spuhr no less. They are beautifully made and very very expensive: https://spuhrwebshop.com/en/isms/ai/30/?twsList-articles=g-price-a-48-1
The issue would not have been fixed with a one piece scope mount though.
The pellet probe was pushing each of the pellets upwards and to the left very slightly (no longer co-axial with the barrel) and only during the last 1mm of travel before the pellet entered the barrel. It took a lot of testing to see and understand this very subtle issue which had begun at the base of the transfer port. The temporary fix was only done because the rifle had been thoroughly tested at this stage and the cause of the problem was discovered.
The gunsmith had offered me the possibility to hand make a completely new part with which he would fix the problem permanently. It was going to take him about 4 weeks of time and labour and cost me an additional £350 ~ £400 over and above the £350 I had already spent, including £100 on the Huggett silencer that the first gunsmith had got me to spend needlessly. That there is the cost of a new cheap rifle or possibly a better quality second-hand one.
In all events, you should shoulder and fire the rifle you are intending to buy and see what the group performance looks and feels like. For me, if a gun does not group the rounds closely (pic 6 or pic 1 above) and cannot be made to group at least that well, there is no point in calling it a gun. I did like the adjustability of the Weihrauch trigger group. It was crisp and had a very predictable release point after a clean first stage.
The Weihrauch silencer is a model of good behaviour and very well made it is too. I would never have thought of it as a cocking aid but I will chalk that one up to the quality of Weihrauch moderator engineering.
I had considered fitting a one piece scope mount from Spuhr no less. They are beautifully made and very very expensive: https://spuhrwebshop.com/en/isms/ai/30/?twsList-articles=g-price-a-48-1
The issue would not have been fixed with a one piece scope mount though.
The pellet probe was pushing each of the pellets upwards and to the left very slightly (no longer co-axial with the barrel) and only during the last 1mm of travel before the pellet entered the barrel. It took a lot of testing to see and understand this very subtle issue which had begun at the base of the transfer port. The temporary fix was only done because the rifle had been thoroughly tested at this stage and the cause of the problem was discovered.
The gunsmith had offered me the possibility to hand make a completely new part with which he would fix the problem permanently. It was going to take him about 4 weeks of time and labour and cost me an additional £350 ~ £400 over and above the £350 I had already spent, including £100 on the Huggett silencer that the first gunsmith had got me to spend needlessly. That there is the cost of a new cheap rifle or possibly a better quality second-hand one.
In all events, you should shoulder and fire the rifle you are intending to buy and see what the group performance looks and feels like. For me, if a gun does not group the rounds closely (pic 6 or pic 1 above) and cannot be made to group at least that well, there is no point in calling it a gun. I did like the adjustability of the Weihrauch trigger group. It was crisp and had a very predictable release point after a clean first stage.
A nice problem Giles? I had my mind all set on saving up for a Daystate Hunstsman Regal HR and then Air Arms regulated the S510 TDR. It's a bl--dy nightmare mate. I can't buy all of them... not this year, anyway.
Jepho yes i believe it is the carbine WH100 that i get approx 70 shots from..that's an interesting post about the HW 100 i am looking for another gun and the HW100 is on my list.. it will be second hand so defo need to try before buy..but yes from an engineering point of view the HW100 action being more or less in 2 parts is not a good idera it may pay to put a one peace scope mount on to bridge the 2 parts at the top ......i would have been surprised if you had a bent moderator as that's the same one that's gets used as a cocking ade on my WH80K
The Streamline is replaced by the Dreamline - just for your info, and the Sporter version in the wooden stock is the version which is similar in style to the Weihrauch / Daystate.
All are cracking rifles, and as Trooper says above best advice is to go and hold them all. See what's comfortable - all have 70 + shot count for hunting - its rare anyone bags 70 pests in one outing so more than enough.
Be comfortable with what your holding and don't forget the new Air Arms 510 regulated - that's also an option.
Nice problem to have - choosing a new rifle.
Enjoy.
G
All are cracking rifles, and as Trooper says above best advice is to go and hold them all. See what's comfortable - all have 70 + shot count for hunting - its rare anyone bags 70 pests in one outing so more than enough.
Be comfortable with what your holding and don't forget the new Air Arms 510 regulated - that's also an option.
Nice problem to have - choosing a new rifle.
Enjoy.
G
I owned a thumbhole full sized version of the HW 100 T for about 18 months. A really nice and well made (possibly not) gun but quite heavy to shoot offhand although not impossible. Accuracy was phenomenal with pellet on pellet at 25 yards. Not especially fussy about pellets either. It was happy with anything from H&N, Bisley, JSB or RWS. Then one day at around 18 months old it did not seem to be quite as accurate and I had no explanation for it. After a week it could not reliably put two pellets in the same quarter of the target, which now looked more like it had been hit with a sawn off shotgun. I had shot for for a minimum of 4 hours every week with this gun over the whole 18 months and it had never missed a beat.
I asked a gunsmith to look at the HW 100 and he told me that the Weihrauch moderator was bent and knocking the pellets off line. He recommended a replacement silencer from Huggett. I bought one and when it was fitted it made no difference. Exit one gunsmith. I found a real gunsmith who looked at the gun and found the issue. Between the magazine and the barrel is a transfer port for the pellet and it has a small gap of a few millimetres. When the gun was new the pellets would slide across the gap without a problem. As the gun became well used, the pellets slipped a little in the transfer port and were not entering the barrel completely co-axially (straight) and therein lay the problem. A temporary fix was made but the gun was never able to shoot pellet on pellet again and I was unwilling to spend several hundred pounds on having a custom part made and fitted.
My view of the gun is that it was brilliant. It was accurate and could be relied upon to hit targets out to 50 yards. I suspect that some cost cutting had taken place and that had affected its longevity. Some other owners may have taken much longer than 18 months to wear it out but I was shooting for about four hours every week. My gun was bought through an RFD who did not use Hull Cartridge so it was a grey import and Hull Cartridge (quite rightly in my view) could not help me. I have attached some images to demonstrate the problem.
Before the problem: pic1 - 5 pellets (pellet on pellet) at 25 yards - pic2 10 pellets ( group of around 8mm) at 25 yards
Problem: pic 3 - 10 pellets at 25 yards! Not possible to predict point of impact. pic 4 - after new Huggett silencer fitted - no accuracy or predictable point of impact.
Temporary repair by gunsmith: pic 5 - 5 shots at 25 yards in a scattered group covering about 1 centimetre.
pic 6 - 25 yard target shot with 5.25 foot pound ten metre rifle with aperture sight.
The scope I had fitted was the Hawke Airmax 30 SF 4-16 x 50. It was a really nice scope and I loved the extended sunshade that kept the sun out of the line of sight when shooting at targets into the sun on bright days. The addition of flip up covers was welcome. What I have found is that high magnifications tend to magnify mistakes in stability and aim point. I would now recommend a much smaller magnification and the best build quality you can afford, depending on your shooting needs. Not for nothing do Leica, Zeiss & Schmidt & Bender cost the arms and legs that are asked for them. Try looking through a 1.1 - 6x Zeiss scope to see what I mean. (£1300 or thereabouts!!!)
For what it is worth, the gunsmith who had repaired the Weihrauch for me was a mechanical engineer who had worked some 50 years as a gunsmith. He thought that the HW 100 was badly designed at the pellet transfer port. He analysed the issues over several weeks and had written to Weihrauch to try and get them to understand his findings. Sadly, they did not want to know.
edit:
Davev8 mentioned the shot count as being quite low. I suspect he may have been referring to the carbine model. The full sized model regularly gave me about 120 shots on a 190bar fill.
One incidental point of interest is that the pellets used in the last image with the ten metre rifle were RWS R10 Match 8.2g 4.50 in size.
Hope this helps.
[attachment]Pic 7.jpg[/attachment][attachment]Pic 7.jpg[/attachment]
I asked a gunsmith to look at the HW 100 and he told me that the Weihrauch moderator was bent and knocking the pellets off line. He recommended a replacement silencer from Huggett. I bought one and when it was fitted it made no difference. Exit one gunsmith. I found a real gunsmith who looked at the gun and found the issue. Between the magazine and the barrel is a transfer port for the pellet and it has a small gap of a few millimetres. When the gun was new the pellets would slide across the gap without a problem. As the gun became well used, the pellets slipped a little in the transfer port and were not entering the barrel completely co-axially (straight) and therein lay the problem. A temporary fix was made but the gun was never able to shoot pellet on pellet again and I was unwilling to spend several hundred pounds on having a custom part made and fitted.
My view of the gun is that it was brilliant. It was accurate and could be relied upon to hit targets out to 50 yards. I suspect that some cost cutting had taken place and that had affected its longevity. Some other owners may have taken much longer than 18 months to wear it out but I was shooting for about four hours every week. My gun was bought through an RFD who did not use Hull Cartridge so it was a grey import and Hull Cartridge (quite rightly in my view) could not help me. I have attached some images to demonstrate the problem.
Before the problem: pic1 - 5 pellets (pellet on pellet) at 25 yards - pic2 10 pellets ( group of around 8mm) at 25 yards
Problem: pic 3 - 10 pellets at 25 yards! Not possible to predict point of impact. pic 4 - after new Huggett silencer fitted - no accuracy or predictable point of impact.
Temporary repair by gunsmith: pic 5 - 5 shots at 25 yards in a scattered group covering about 1 centimetre.
pic 6 - 25 yard target shot with 5.25 foot pound ten metre rifle with aperture sight.
The scope I had fitted was the Hawke Airmax 30 SF 4-16 x 50. It was a really nice scope and I loved the extended sunshade that kept the sun out of the line of sight when shooting at targets into the sun on bright days. The addition of flip up covers was welcome. What I have found is that high magnifications tend to magnify mistakes in stability and aim point. I would now recommend a much smaller magnification and the best build quality you can afford, depending on your shooting needs. Not for nothing do Leica, Zeiss & Schmidt & Bender cost the arms and legs that are asked for them. Try looking through a 1.1 - 6x Zeiss scope to see what I mean. (£1300 or thereabouts!!!)
For what it is worth, the gunsmith who had repaired the Weihrauch for me was a mechanical engineer who had worked some 50 years as a gunsmith. He thought that the HW 100 was badly designed at the pellet transfer port. He analysed the issues over several weeks and had written to Weihrauch to try and get them to understand his findings. Sadly, they did not want to know.
edit:
Davev8 mentioned the shot count as being quite low. I suspect he may have been referring to the carbine model. The full sized model regularly gave me about 120 shots on a 190bar fill.
One incidental point of interest is that the pellets used in the last image with the ten metre rifle were RWS R10 Match 8.2g 4.50 in size.
Hope this helps.
At that price range accuracy is not going to be the main issue as they are all pretty damn accurate. As Dave8 says it really depends on whether you are going to be carrying it across fields and such or sitting in a hide or target shooting.
At the very least find yourself a good RFD and ask if you can hold and shoulder each of your choices. If your lucky and they have the facility they may even let you try before you buy.
At the very least find yourself a good RFD and ask if you can hold and shoulder each of your choices. If your lucky and they have the facility they may even let you try before you buy.
The HW100 is the best of these for pest control due to it's weight and easy loading system, it's also an accurate and hardy gun, but I don't personally rate them as I don't hunt, so it's hunting plus points are lost on me and I find them ugly and shoddily put together with every one I've had leaking or having the reg go - and I've had three, so god knows I gave them a go 
I like the Wolverine R, it's a cracking gun, very accurate and a great piece of kit, especialy the grey laminat hi lite version
But if your main thing is hunting it's a big lump to carry round a field, it would be ok in a hide or barn, but watch the weight. The scope you mention is available in several magnifications, and I've had most of them, pick the lower ones for hunting and the higher ones for range or target work so you can see the pellet strikes clearly and adjust aim as required. The Airmax range is specifically designed with air guns in mine, but the sidewinders and endurance range are better but more expensive if you can stretch to them.
As for the FX, I've yet to try one I like, and I've had several FXs over the years including Crowns and Impacts, but for the price the Daystates win every time in comparison at this price point, you would be far better looking at something like a Regal HR in my opinion
I like the Wolverine R, it's a cracking gun, very accurate and a great piece of kit, especialy the grey laminat hi lite version
But if your main thing is hunting it's a big lump to carry round a field, it would be ok in a hide or barn, but watch the weight. The scope you mention is available in several magnifications, and I've had most of them, pick the lower ones for hunting and the higher ones for range or target work so you can see the pellet strikes clearly and adjust aim as required. The Airmax range is specifically designed with air guns in mine, but the sidewinders and endurance range are better but more expensive if you can stretch to them.As for the FX, I've yet to try one I like, and I've had several FXs over the years including Crowns and Impacts, but for the price the Daystates win every time in comparison at this price point, you would be far better looking at something like a Regal HR in my opinion
thay are all very good guns and i have only shot with the HW100 and the only fault i can give it is the shot count is not the best if i remember i think 50 or 60 for the 177 a plus for the HW100 is the magazine as you can load it with your eyes closed so not fiddly they say you have to spend a lot of money so you can say yes XXXX PCP is better than the HW100...a plus for the FX is its adjustable power which will be handy if you hunt say pidgins in farm buildings..i have to use .22 as my .177 which is under the power limit will go strait through a pidgin and the asbestos roof behind it ...the 22 stops in the pidgin..the daystate ,,well its a daystate ..maybe it bigger than the other 2 with the only downside is its almost twice the price ..the only thing i would be aware with a scope if you hunt in buildings at close range like pidgins in rafters a magnification that starts at no more 3x is a good idea..my scope starts at 2x which seams ideal...if you don't do much at close quarters then it wont matter
Summary they are all very good guns the adjustable power on the FX may be real handy ..the HW100 has not got the best shot count. .but that may not matter to you the daystate is a lot more money but probably the nicest made
Summary they are all very good guns the adjustable power on the FX may be real handy ..the HW100 has not got the best shot count. .but that may not matter to you the daystate is a lot more money but probably the nicest made
I’ve just got rid of my pcp smk so I’ve still got my scuba tank for refill.
I do abit of pest control round my area for a family friend but as of my question I’m looking for something higher end. I am also looking at the hawk airmax 30 wheel scope to mount on my new pcp. If that helps that be perfect
I do abit of pest control round my area for a family friend but as of my question I’m looking for something higher end. I am also looking at the hawk airmax 30 wheel scope to mount on my new pcp. If that helps that be perfect
Hello ..1st off we need to know what you intend to use you gun for... and what price bracket.. bear in mind you need to budget for a scope and some means of filling your PCP ...if we have a price range thier maybe other guns to recommend....when you have your short list its a good plan to see them in the flesh and shoulder them
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